Quake Enhanced - Health Packs in Nightmare Difficulty

Hi

Yesterday, id Software launched Quake Enhanced Edition. And I have bought it. But I have encountered something strange. In the nightmare difficulty the Health Packs only works if our health is below 50. And it doesn´t recover completly. Only up to 50. Why is that? Is that a bug? I have the original game since 1996, and in that version the health packs work normally in nightmare difficulty. I don´t know if the Steam, GOG or Bethesda versions works like the Enhanced Edition in terms of the Health Packs in nightmare difficulty. But i´m sure that in the original game things were different. Any help? Sorry for my bad english. I´m from Spain.

Lowering the HP maximum to 50 in nightmare difficulty is something a few mods already do. It’s likely just been applied to the base game now.

The HP maximum is not 50. In the Enhanced edition your health starts at 100. But only when your health is below 50 the health packs work. And, like i said before, your health only recovers up to 50. But maybe is what you have said: is not a bug, it´s a new gameplay feature with the objetive of doing the Nightmare Difficulty even more difficult. I don´t know. If that´s the case, I don´t like it.

My interpretation is that intended behaviour is the default health is 50, health packs don’t work unless your health is below that and everything above should be counted as “overhealth” and tick down over time, as it is in Copper. In this case, the bug is not that you can’t pick up health packs but that it doesn’t always correctly default your health to 50.

After playing Copper for some time I’m convinced that it is absolutely a better version of nightmare, it’s just a shame that they’ve implemented it in a questionable way here.

It’s weird becasue the Enhanced version recreates original game’s behavior by not letting look fully up or down, but chooses to not recreate original game’s Nightmare skill.

Nightmare sets your maximum health to 50 for Dimension of the Machine properly, but it’s very strange that it’s in this odd state for the base game. If it isn’t a bug, I hope that they restore the original nightmare behaviour and add the 50hp cap with non-turret monsters as a separate difficulty mode/modifier, akin to how the Doom re-release has ‘UV+’. Vanilla’s nightmare difficulty isn’t the most well thought of features, but it’s substantial enough that it should be preserved correctly.

As much as I like Copper’s nightmare, I think I agree koren. It’s very strange to have things like that made mandatory.

Thanks to all for the answers. It seems that is not clear what happened here. But i still preffer the original Nightmare difficulty, with no health cap and health packs working in all cases. And like h4724 and koren say, the health cap shouldn´t be something mandatory. It should be an option. Maybe in future patches…

I’m also playing new Quake 2021 on Nightmare and health is 50. Can someone confirm that this is new in this release and that in “old” quake it was 100 even on Nightmare?

Yes, the rerelease changed Nightmare mode for some reason.

These [edit: Insult removed by Spirit, user received a warning] didn’t even alter the models of the heads! By the way! MD5 models from the updated version can be easily converted into MDL models using the “Noesis” program. And these models can be used in QSS 0.93.2. :slight_smile:

And the models of boxes, ammo and first-aid kits are very simplified. It was possible to do it with additional geometry as in all mods.

It would appear that change was indeed intentional. Incredibly disappointing behaviour. I’m all for adding new optional features, but you have to respect the core of the game. Sure, the line for acceptable ‘fixes’ can be a bit fuzzy when it comes to minor alterations to geometry and some longstanding bugs, but swapping out a difficulty setting and not being transparent about it is way over it.

They probably didn’t want to change the BSP ammo because currently they’re fullbright and visible wherever they are placed. If they made them mdl or md5 they would inherit the light value of the worldspawn brush below their origin, which could make some too dark to see because the developers didn’t have to worry about visibility when placing them.

Making the half-health mechanic an optional thing would make no sense, as the Nightmare setting already is optional. Personally I find this idea perfect the way it is; it increases the challenge by a large degree without taking away any of the fun like vanilla Nightmare did, with mobs shooting the player like a bunch of maniacs and nothing else; that was about the only thing the game did before, and even in its day it got pretty tiresome and predictable. You can always go for Hard mode anyway, it’s the setting I always played custom maps before Copper Quake changed my mind. Now I play on Nightmare all the time.

Practicalities of such an endeavour to one side, how does having a new remixed difficulty mode alongside the original make no sense? This way everybody is happy - people who actually enjoy the original nightmare mode and think that it’s a significant part of the game can still play it in the official port and enjoy it with the kex multiplayer backend and there’s a new beefed up hard mode for people who would like that. Everybody gets what they want.

For the record, I don’t dislike the new nightmare difficulty and have played through the base game and mission packs with it a couple of times. In the absence of a copper-style mod for scourge of armagon, it was a fresh way to replay those levels. I just think it’s a bit beyond the pale to strip out an existing feature of the game for it. I’d be equally dismayed if they had removed nightmare in the doom unity port, and that’s a game mode I feel is far less enjoyable or casually playable.

I don’t follow you logic. How is forcing a change on the fanbase more sensible than offering it as an option? How does leaving game mechanics as close as possible to original make no sense? It’s fine if you like it that way, but acting like just because YOU like it, EVERYONE should be forced to play it that way is asinine. Not only does Nightmare mode change the behavior of mobs, but it also adds more of them. Changing the amount of health does not address the issue you raised to do with mob AI.

Nightmare was already significantly harder than Hard, and I think a lot of people like the gradient as it was. Taking away half of your health makes it twice as hard, which might make the leap from Hard to Nightmare too far for some people. Adding the half-health feature as an option would give an additional difficulty level, which would satisfy everyone.

I too have been playing Quake since it’s release. I still have the original CD, in fact. I also play in Nightmare, as lower difficulty levels are not challenging enough, and I can even see myself using the half-health feature, but I very much so don’t like having it forced on me. I feel that the feature came about as a lazy way to increase difficulty in mods without having to do a lot of modification to multiple other elements in the game. It would be better to increase the damage dealt by mobs, or better yet, make mobs smarter, but those kinds of changes should also be optional.

I am sorry to interfere, it is not my business altogether, but regarding this one:

It is reasonable, but people tend to yearn for compliancy; they want to share a similar matrix of experience. Everyone having their own, distinct set of options, sends everyone effectively to a part-time isolation, if we talk about gameplay changing factors and not just pure convenience. In the end, one could ask: do we even play the same game, anymore? Aiming to satisfy everyone, could end up causing an exhausting list of options, making things unnecessarily puzzling; there are games following this rule and personally, I do not feel convinced by it. That is the developer dilemma, to decide.

Unless, what you think of, is a separate “Nightmare+” difficulty, that would run the half-health feature on top of regular “Nightmare” conditions? In ‘Quake’, though, that would mean map layout changes.