Well, the Rail Gun is quite unique and it would enrich gameplay.
The Laser Gun would be similar to the Lightning Gun, I guess, but it could have these modifications:
° unlimited range;
° work underwater;
° gib zombies;
maybe at the expense of using more Cells, sort of like the Super Nailgun is to the Nailgun.
The Laser Gun would then complete the symmetry of ammo-sharing weapons: Shotgun with Double-Barreled Shotgun, Nailgun with Super Nailgun, Grenade Launcher with Rocket Launcher.
I think the entire “more guns” approach is not the way to go. Perhaps something that alter the gunplay, somehow, could be interesting, but yet another gun - you already have the plasma gun, introduced in “Quoth”, maybe even earlier. It does pretty good job, in my opinion, without echoing the plasmagun of ‘Doom’ all that much - in ‘Quake’, it is slower, it is more powerful, as well as it deals splash damage. It does gib zombies. It uses cells ammo.
I guess what you want, is “Jesus Christ” of ‘Quake’ weapons - but it, is going to betray you.
I think this entire symmetry-everywhere concept, is meh. It does not even do in stage design.
Actually, if you put an elephant on top of an elephant, what kind of symmetry is that?
Symmetry - a perfect symmetry - should announce something big, something like a slipgate; thus becoming part of a communication code between the developer and the player. You do not just throw symmetry like that.
But you know, guys, since it is your personal energy and effort, I say - go ahead, we will see what you have come up with. At worst, you will upload the mod somewhere for archive purposes, to show people still do stuff for ‘Quake’ - while at best, someone will actually use it.
I’m aware of the extra weapons, for example I love the modified LG in Dissolution Of Eternity and the Triple-Barreled Shotgun in AD, and I feel that the Laser Cannon from Scourge Of Armagon kicks ass, and that the Plasma Gun from Quoth is badass.
When I said that I had always felt like Quake was missing a ninth weapon, I was merely expressing a feeling in reference to the original release due to the fact that there were two weapons per ammo type up until the LG, a symmetry which if completed would have done little to exhaust the space for asymmetrical elements in Quake.
So, I don’t particularly want anything, I just expressed a feeling with respect to the past endeavor that was the original release.
Yeah a better word would be a “pairing” weapon instead of “symmetry”. Of course nobody is saying that Quake weapons are or should be “symmetrical”. SSG has a drawback compared to SG because of spread, GL has a faster fire rate and bouncing while RL has slower rate of fire. The only ones that are really close are NG and SNG, but I think Copper mod with just small alterations makes them more distinct.
However although I love SOA’s Laser Cannon, it’s basically another Super Nailgun.
The Plasma weapon from DOE I never really liked, maybe I didn’t use it much but it felt kinda weak
So yeah, Railgun type weapon using Cells wouldn’t be too bad. Then again, they come up with it only during development of Quake II, and there’s a use for that weapon in single player, because Q2 is “slower” than Q1.
Well, yeah, I’m not saying that the weapons themselves are symmetrical, I’m saying that for every ammo type up to Cells there being two weapons is itself a kind of symmetry, not in a geometrical sense or a similarity sense but in the general sense of pattern of correspondence: to every ammo type up to Cells there corresponds two weapons: a lighter one, and a heavier one.
So symmetry here applies to the array of weapons organized by said pattern of correspondence and not to the weapons themselves. To refer to the weapons within the symmetry (pattern of correspondence), yeah, sure, you can use “pairing” or “correspondent”.
SSG has wider spread, but more power, while SG has less power, but lesser spread. This makes SG good long-distance, and SSG good for close encounters. The two shotguns complement eachother. As to the Laser Cannon, it is quite more than a SNG because its projectiles bounce off walls, so it borrows from GL gameplay. And as to the Railgun, Q3 is a fast game, and Rail works there too.
I have not played any ‘Quake’ official expansion pack, so I cannot comment on the weapons from these that you refer to or otherwise relate to your opinions in this regard.
If I would have to vote for one weapon to become removed from the original ‘Quake’ arsenal, that would be the rocket launcher. Howitzer, is a much more interesting gun, when it comes to the rocket ammo utilization, while for a long range “sniping”, there are other guns.
Sniping in ‘Quake’ - sounds like a topic.
Even though it is not very much ‘Quake’ style, while making things complicated, what about a gun that uses two ammo types simultaneously?
Anyhow, much speculation - I do not think it is really worth it, nor do I think it is particularly going anywhere.
I do not like the laser cannon idea, the way you put it.
You don’t have to, they were merely exemplifications of my awareness of other weapons in Quake.
I take it you’re not a fan of rocket jumping, then.
You mean the Laser Gun idea…? The Laser Cannon is already implemented in Scourge Of Armagon.
Why not? Anyway, I think they are worth playing, at least once. And they do have some power-up artifacts different from Quake.
Within the realm of what this forum thread is about, it is a good challenge to perhaps think of a rocket-jump function, that would employ rockets - which means, an ability - without employing rocket launcher or even howitzer, for that matter.
Is that what you were talking about, speaking of the laser cannon? Anyway, it does not really matter.
Because I do not believe it is worth it, better than any well rated release on the ‘Quaddicted’.
The Laser Cannon is a powerful weapon from Scourge Of Armagon. It uses Cells and fires projectiles like those of the Enforcer, but continuously and at a high rate, and these projectiles bounce off walls.
Then original Quake content is not worth playing as well?
Then original Quake content is not worth playing as well?[/quote]
To be fair, yes - but simultaneously, I imagine ‘Quake’ has more integrity and simply good taste to it, than the counterparts we talk about - neither ‘Quake’, nor ‘Quake 2’, are commonly known to have official expansion packs, that would meet the quality level of original game, by a good margin. Likewise, could be the case of ‘F.E.A.R.’. I guess it is just hard, to make a good addon.
On the ‘Quaddicted’, creators have merits that help them perfect their creations, as compared to official, for-profit releases. It is a different realm of mindset, as well as different dynamic of the art. Besides, technology has changed locally throughout the years and recent innovations, help uncover what ‘Quake’, can become, not just what it was.
I believe nobody nowadays is interested in playing ‘Quake’ from 1996 - as it was back then - apart from case study.
We are sliding towards offtopic, therefore a new topic or we conclude this early.
Speaking of rocket-jumping without guns, maybe the jump-boots, could eat rocket-fuel. Not truly a rocket-jumping, but still a way to utilize rocket ammo for the sake of enhanced movement.
Looking online will reveal that the reception for the mission packs was overwhelmingly positive and that they’re quite popular: they have wiki pages, fandom pages for individual levels, monsters, etc., on YouTube they have playthroughs, speedruns, and reviews up to this day.
Having played them myself I can attest to them being well thought-out, professionally done, and rich: they have extra weapons, extra monsters, extra ammo, extra power-ups, detailed maps, bosses, they’re colorful, and engaging.
On the contrary, a lot of people are intrested in old-school Quake, as the release and the reception of DOPA show, and recently we’ve had the Q25 Limits release, and we have Tremor coming up, to give a few examples.
Oh, and it just so happens that only 1 hour ago Bethesda Softworks released on YouTube a video called “Quake - Official Trailer (2021)”, in which they invite the viewers to experience the refurbished original Quake and its mission packs, plus one new mission pack.
@‘I Like Quake’, good for them, good for you. I do not feel like owing anyone an apologize or anything. Keep calm and do what feels right for you. Apart from that, do you have any input regarding the topic premise?
It never even crossed my mind that you would owe anyone an apology, it’s all good.
Yeah, it is in my first post for the thread.
Speaking of:
I wonder if under such condition, the boots - or the jump-pack - should be accompanied by some form of a rocket-blast effect upon the ignition, possibly dealing minor splash damage in narrow radius, as well?
Speaking of:
My thoughts drift towards the perforator gun. You see, the proportion of difference, between a shotgun/rifle and a doublebarrel shotgun, does not match the one between a nailgun and a perforator. Many players, would use the basic rifle, for the means of “sniping”, while the doublebarrel, does a decent job at close range and nothing beyond that. The difference in application, is clear.
The perforator, in original ‘Quake’ terms, does nothing beyond what the nailgun does, except for doing it faster. I argue one does not need an entire new gun, to explain why a thing happens faster. What could do for that sake, instead, is a “vania”-type upgrade for a primary tool, which is the nailgun. I believe nobody would complain if the nailgun, was somewhere made to shoot faster, without any backtrack to the slower mode.
Which is why, the notion of making the perforator, a summit of not just nail-based guns, but of shell-based guns, as well. What I mean by that, is - yes, it would use two ammo types simultaneously. The basis, is to make it an auto-shotgun type of weapon, shooting clusters of nails at higher velocity, for increased damage - relative to the basic nail damage - in a rapid succession, albeit not in a fluently continuous manner.
EDIT:
I do acknowledge the efforts in the ‘Copper’ mod, to give the perforator a spread effect - thus weakening the long range precision of this nail-based gun - while still, it does not satisfy me as a counter-argument for the issue put.
Once I speculated about the origins - or the originators - of energy shield in first person shooter games. I came to conclusion - surprise, surprise - that the earliest exponent of the notion, was ‘Quake 2’, with implementation of a device: the power armor or the power shield.
The power shield, was an item - an artifact - which means, it could be turned on or off, as an addon to all other defensive values one would already have. It was using energy cells - the ammo shared with energy-cell based weapons, such as the hyperblaster or the BFG.
The power shield, protected from projectile impact - as far as I remember, it mostly protected only from the frontal impact - but paradoxically, it provided also quite a neat, partial protection against environmental hazards, even the magma! The latter, would not probably stand a test of time, balance-wise speaking - I do not frankly remember the exact clockwork of the power shield, though, therefore, a questionmark.
In the original ‘Quake’, we do have cells and we do have very few weapons, using cells - even though when a weapon already does use the cells, it does so massively. Perhaps - such as with rockets - some alternative way of given ammo utilization, could come in handy?
Should I underscore at this point, that the power shield, is to replace the traditional “colorful” armors.
One could argue, that the power shield equivalent in ‘Quake’, alters the “meatball” style of ‘Quake’ health and damage system. I reply that this only changes the resources in demand, still remaining perfectly within the “meatball” paradigm. The resources in demand, shift from actual medkits, mainly to energy cells. The medkits, are there as before, but to a lesser extent - becoming crucial when the power shield, is down.
Instead of time-based recharging - as it is in some other, non-“meatball” styles - the shield, would require cells to be maintained. Notwithstanding, it is the health factor, that means game over at the state of zero - not the shield.
To spice things up, there could be damage inducing pathways, dealing damage directly unto the health and only partially minding the shield or even despite the shield altogether. Understandably, the latter, should be carefully weighted, otherwise, the gameplay momentum, becomes broken.
In the context of latest entries within this thread, I would like to bring the statement of ‘Copper’ mod, regarding difficulty balance problematics, as put in the text description of ‘Copper’ version “1.16” - what I find convincing:
The key design-tag here, is: transparency.