overall_rating 4.035714285714286 28

Forum thread for q25_limits_v1.2

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Can we please; please; please just for once have these map packs arranged in an episodic fashion like in the original Quake? As in, letting me keep all the stuff I get instead of stripping my ass naked and sending me to the freaking start map every time I complete a level? The way these maps work completely kills the purpose of finding secrets and saving armor or health for the next map, and it just keeps happening over and over and over again with every single one of these map packs, it’s very disheartening.

But that’s what Mapping Jams are. With episode I’d imagine there’s also a subject of level order and therefore possible multiple re-balances on all of them, it adds more complexity to organize the pack and to maintain it.

That said, there were a few proper Episode packs released in last couple of years: Epochs of Enmity, Dwell (Episode 1, more incoming), Realm of the Lost, Torrent of Impurities, Underdark Overbright, The Punishment Due. And there’s also incoming 4-episode 32-level 1996-style Tremor.

But I’ve noticed that packs that are mapping jams are also marked with “episode” tag in them, which does seem wrong.

Regarding pointless to find secrets and saving armor, that’s not too different from single standalone map releases, no?

Making every map jam an episodic release requires drastically more effort than the hub-isode style most packs are released in.

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Putting all these maps in an Episode has it’s pros and cons.
While it’s disheartening for you to lose all your stuff at the end of each map, it’s also disheartening for a mapper who spent a month on carefully balancing the map if a player enters his level already equipped with RL, LG and red armor. It would basically ruin the experience.

As @Mukor already pointed out it requires drastically more effort to release them in a hub-style pack. I would even take it a step further an say it’s almost impossible under the given circumstances of a jam.

Meanwhile: …something similar was successully realized 4 times in the Doom community with “Community Chest” 1-4.
Those are 32 standalone Maps by various mappers, compiled into a Megawad.

I played them first in sequence… wrote down which maps I liked and then played these maps again each from scratch. It worked for me.

I personally love the episodic approach.
A possible solution to do this in a project like this could be:

  • Make a start hub where the player has the choice of selecting a specific map OR an episode.

There is of course the problem with the trigger_changelevel which specifies what map should be loaded the the end of the level - depending on if you play episodic vs single map. But there are several ways to address this.


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After playing some of the maps now I’d say. Episode or not… I won’t play it again.
It was a very disappointing experience.
Who rated this a 5??

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Jams are just that: jams. They are not episodes. People make maps in jams under the guidelines of a theme and/or constraints. Rating this pack poorly due to some uninformed expectation isn’t quite kosher.

Considering the tight guidelines of this pack, I think it turned out quite nice. If you’re looking for a modded out episode, then look elsewhere. If you’re looking for a bevy of vanilla style maps that follow the tight constraints of the original game, then this will entertain you!

ldfl: Very nice!
doom: Too tight, repetitive and thus hard to navigate for me. Liked the style though.
gree: Very nice!

grue: Metal <3! Had some scripting issue around the portal and wasted a Quad, it worked out in the end though.

il8r: First room threw me into the Yun battle in Jedi Knight, same feeling in the layout :smiley: Had fun!

jcr: Weird scale, took a while to like it but in the end the concept was nice. Pretty brutal setup for the end fight with all the ricochet.

jcr2: LOVED IT!

mark: See jcr2.